In this interdialogue I spoke with my friend and colleague Rafael Hurtado from within his office at the National University of Colombia in Bogota, where he is currently serving as the director of the physics department. 

Hurtado is a particle physicist and complex systems science researcher and practitioner. He leads the university’s econophysics and sociophysics group, and for 17 years now has taught an innovative interdisciplinary course on socio-physics. 

He also leads an intercultural national water monitoring network called “REMONA,” which is built on principles of complexity and citizen science. 

As is the beauty of a conversation centered around complex systems, order, patterns, and a shared love of physics, as well as the utilization of science for positive social and ecological impact, our conversation spanned a wide-range of topics, from music and art to urban movements and growth, to epidemiology, language, water and how complexity and mutual respect can form the basis of fruitful collaborations with Indigenous Peoples. 

I began by asking Hurtado how an internationally educated Colombian particle physicist found his way into an eclectic career in complex systems science within a notoriously disordered country.

Timestamps

00:00:00 – Introduction

00:03:50 – From Particle Physics to Social Science

00:08:10 – Sociophysics and Econophysics

00:13:35 – Teaching, Evolution, and Student Impact

00:17:10 – Modeling Real-World Systems and the Value of Curiosity

00:20:40 – Modeling the Pandemic in Colombia

00:24:20 – Core Principles of Complex Systems Science

00:28:20 – Urban Growth, Mobility, and Self-Organization in Cities

00:35:10 – Discovering Complexity in Music

00:39:40 – The Logic and Freedom of Marimba Music

00:47:40 – The Disappearance of Musical and Linguistic Diversity

00:51:20 – The Origins and Stability of Human Language

00:55:14 – Language, Music, and the Emergence of Meaning

01:07:05 – Art, Painting, and Artistic Evolution

01:14:00 – Water, Knowledge, and Complexity

01:23:10 – Indigenous Knowledge and Scientific Dialogue

01:32:00 – The Big History of Water and the Universe

01:38:30 – The Future of Complexity Research in Colombia