Ashish Kothari is an Indian environmentalist, author, and founding member of Kalpavriksh, a non-profit working on environmental and social justice issues at local, national, and global scales. He has taught at the Indian Institute of Public Administration and the National Law School of India University in Bengaluru, coordinated India’s National Biodiversity Strategy and Action Plan process, and serves as a judge on the International Tribunal on the Rights of Nature. He also helps coordinate the Vikalp Sangam alternatives confluence, the Global Tapestry of Alternatives, and the Radical Ecological Democracy initiative. Over more than four decades, he has authored, co-authored, or edited more than 30 books, along with hundreds of articles. In this wide-ranging InterDialogue, Kothari traces his path from a childhood watching Delhi’s urban forests disappear into a lifetime of environmental and social justice work, and how that activism grew into Kalpavriksh and wider networks like the Vikalp Sangam, the ICCA Consortium, and the Global Tapestry of Alternatives. We discuss the biocultural and ideological diversity of the Indian subcontinent, his concept of “outscaling” as an alternative to conventional growth models, and how Adivasi and indigenous rights in India compare with frameworks in Latin America, shaped by very different histories of colonization and violence. Kothari also reflects on decades of writing—from a self-published newsletter in 1980 to the hundred-essay volume Pluriverse—and how it has supported grassroots movements and reached younger generations. We go on to explore the rights of nature movement in India—including the personhood granted to the Ganga and Yamuna rivers and the transboundary politics of South Asia’s rivers—before Kothari lays out earthy governance, his framework for moving beyond the legal limits of rights of nature toward a form of decision-making in which the rest of the natural world is already part of the process, illustrated through examples from a...

Mariana Gómez Soto is a Colombian social anthropologist, environmentalist, and activist. She holds a BA in social anthropology with minors in geography and biology, a master’s degree in social anthropology, and a second master’s degree in holistic sciences from Schumacher College. Gómez has worked closely with Indigenous communities for many years and has led key intercultural initiatives through her roles at the Gaia Amazonas Foundation and as a leader within the North Amazon Alliance. She is the lead author of a recent chapter on socio-bioeconomics and connectivity published in an assessment report by the Science Panel for the Amazon. Gómez also played a central role in founding the Amazonia Conectada coalition, which brings together the North Amazon Alliance, the Science Panel for the Amazon, RAISG, and Aguas Amazónicas—organizations with distinct areas of expertise united by a shared commitment to sustaining the Amazon’s terrestrial, biocultural, hydrological, and climatic interconnectivity. This wide-ranging InterDialogue opens with a discussion on dynamic, context-based frameworks for building and scaling a sustainable, circular bioeconomy in the Amazon. The conversation then turns to the importance of Amazonian connectivity, the evolving priorities of the North Amazon Alliance and Amazonia Conectada, and the critical role of interdisciplinary and intercultural education and collaboration in safeguarding the region’s future. Timestamps 0:00 – Introduction 1:42 – Defining Bioeconomics and Socio-Bioeconomy 5:44 – Envisioning a Circular Bioeconomy in the Amazon 9:52 – Developing Socio-Bioeconomic Trade Infrastructure 12:09 – Challenges of Modeling Bioeconomy in Practice 14:45 – Consequences of 2026 Elections for the Amazon 16:10 – Bioeconomic Product Identification and Market Integration 22:47 – Experiences Coordinating the North Amazon Alliance 24:27 – Analyzing Connectivity in the Amazon 31:47 – Hydrological-Terrestrial Interconnectivity 34:24 – Developing a New Methodology for Measuring Forest Connectivity 37:26 – Coordinating with Policymakers and the Public 44:11 – Experiences at COP30 49:49...

Investment in science is a pillar for any dynamic, equitable modern society, and promoting scientific literacy across all levels of society can help foster innovation, dialogue, and consensus that crosses disciplinary and cultural boundaries. Science also helps to uncover answers to foundational questions that have captivated, confounded, and divided our species for millennia. But what is “science,” and what kind of “evidence” ensures that an approach is scientific? If we take “science” to broadly mean, in its purest sense, a “dynamic search for the truth,” or more explicitly, “the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence,” as the Science Council aptly defines it, then science extends beyond the established, highly specialized disciplines of reductionist natural sciences (physics, chemistry, biology, geoscience, and space science) that have been so successful in fostering our understanding of our planet and the cosmos. Under this definition, science also includes the rigorous data-driven (qualitative and quantitative) social sciences, the inherently non-reductionist “holistic” sciences such as ecological and Earth system sciences, and the budding interdisciplinary field of complex systems science, as well as robust traditional knowledge systems based on multi-generational experiences, observations, and reasoning. As with science, “evidence” can mean a lot of things as well, including primary research, pre-existing data, past and planned experiments, and the referencing of peer-reviewed publications and primary sources. It can also include local and traditional knowledge, thought experiments, theoretical proofs, contemplation, verifiable personal experience, and empirical observation. Broadening and weaving together these forms of scientific evidence holds the potential to address complex, interconnected global challenges and explain deep mysteries that could help unify our polarized societies around foundational understandings. Foundational Questions Foundational questions can transcend the divides of generations and cultures: Cosmology, physics, and evolutionary biology have shed...

Luiz Davidovich is a Brazilian theoretical physicist with vast experience working at the science-policy interface. This was our second recorded Interdialogue, and this time we met at his lovely FINAP office in Rio de Janeiro, again speaking in depth about the importance of investing in science in both the developing and developed world.  In our wide-ranging conversation, we also ventured into foundational questions about the quantum world and the nature of reality, with a focus on his personal research in quantum metrology. Furthermore, we spoke about some timely recent projects with FINEP focused on bioeconomics, sustainable development and the conservation of the Amazon rainforest. Davidovich is the former president of the Brazilian Academy of Sciences, as well as the former secretary general of The World Academy of Sciences (TWAS). He is the recent recipient of the prestigious TWAS Apex award for his work in quantum optics and quantum information, and for promoting fundamental scientific research, globally.  Chapters 0:00:00 – Introduction 00:02:02 – The improving state of scientific investment in Brazil 00:12:20 – Current roles and projects for fostering scientific research 00:17:31 – The Amazon and bioeconomics 00:28:28 – The importance of intercultural collaboration, mutual respect and knowledge sharing between scientists and Indigenous peoples 00:41:47 – The importance of funding science, technology and innovation in Brazil 00:47:08 – Interrelated theoretical and experimental research into quantum systems interacting with the environment 00:57:03 – What is quantum metrology? 01:02:12 – The fun of doing scientific research and the social responsibility of fostering science 01:04:19 – Quantum computing, artificial intelligence and energy 01:13:58 – General AI, quantum entanglement and consciousness 01:19:03 – The dangers of anti-science, pseudoscience, misinformation and inequality, and the importance of effective scientific communication and engaging early science education

Marcelino Sánchez Noé is an Indigenous leader and representative of the Ticuna People from the Colombian Amazon. He is the former general secretary and legal representative of the CIMTAR (Cabildo Indígena Mayor de Tarapacá) Association and has served as an Ethnoeducator in the Indigenous community of Caña Brava along the Cotuhue River, where he currently resides. This beautiful territory is deep in the Amazon Rainforest within the Putumayo River Basin, and near the border with Brazil. Since 2021 he has served as a senior advisor of the Greater Indigenous Council of Tarapacá and has participated in various intercultural collaborations with the Colombian State and with non-governmental organizations. His professional background is as a teacher and technician in comprehensive early childhood care, with a degree from SENA. In our Interdialogue we spoke about the beautiful culture and ancestral territory of the Tikuna, and how they have recently been roped into Colombia’s ongoing conflict, especially in relation to illegal gold mining. We then spoke about the central role of the “Chagra” (traditional rotational agriculture) for the Ticuna, and how circular bioeconomics focused on the Chagra and Non-timber forest products, as well as an appropriate integration of Western science and technology, can create sustainable livelihoods for the Ticuna. We also focused our conversation on the vital importance of autonomy and mutually respectful intercultural dialogue and collaborations, in order preserve both traditional cultures and the wider Andes-Amazon ecoregion. Note: This Interdialogue was recorded in Spanish and is subtitled in English. Timestamps 00:00:00 – Introduction 00:07:41 – Ancestral territory of the Ticuna and its place in Colombia’s ongoing conflict 00:11:53 – The importance of traditional knowledge, language and autonomous governance 00:16:52 – Bioeconomics, sustainable livelihoods and the central role of the “Chagra” 00:24:17 – Water, energy, communication, and the importance of weaving together science, technology...