Ashish Kothari is an Indian environmentalist, author, and founding member of Kalpavriksh, a non-profit working on environmental and social justice issues at local, national, and global scales. He has taught at the Indian Institute of Public Administration and the National Law School of India University in Bengaluru, coordinated India’s National Biodiversity Strategy and Action Plan process, and serves as a judge on the International Tribunal on the Rights of Nature. He also helps coordinate the Vikalp Sangam alternatives confluence, the Global Tapestry of Alternatives, and the Radical Ecological Democracy initiative. Over more than four decades, he has authored, co-authored, or edited more than 30 books, along with hundreds of articles. In this wide-ranging InterDialogue, Kothari traces his path from a childhood watching Delhi’s urban forests disappear into a lifetime of environmental and social justice work, and how that activism grew into Kalpavriksh and wider networks like the Vikalp Sangam, the ICCA Consortium, and the Global Tapestry of Alternatives. We discuss the biocultural and ideological diversity of the Indian subcontinent, his concept of “outscaling” as an alternative to conventional growth models, and how Adivasi and indigenous rights in India compare with frameworks in Latin America, shaped by very different histories of colonization and violence. Kothari also reflects on decades of writing—from a self-published newsletter in 1980 to the hundred-essay volume Pluriverse—and how it has supported grassroots movements and reached younger generations. We go on to explore the rights of nature movement in India—including the personhood granted to the Ganga and Yamuna rivers and the transboundary politics of South Asia’s rivers—before Kothari lays out earthy governance, his framework for moving beyond the legal limits of rights of nature toward a form of decision-making in which the rest of the natural world is already part of the process, illustrated through examples from a...

Is self-organization the answer to the foundational question of why life exhibits such complexity? And can it also serve as a guiding framework for how best to save complex webs of biodiversity amid the onslaughts of the modern world? Self-organization exists throughout nature and socioeconomic structures. It refers to the spontaneous emergence of collective, complex order within a disordered system, due to localized interactions that follow simple rules, and occurring without external controls. While conceptually abstract, given that uncertainty lies at its core, the applications of self-organization are everywhere. Advancing our understanding of the non-linear processes within complex systems that drive self-organization is also becoming increasingly important for developing evidence-based policies in a world defined by interdependence and escalating stressors. Indigenous cultures, such as those that live within complex socio-ecological systems in the Amazon ecoregion, have long embraced these principles of uncertainty, interconnectedness, and non-linear dynamics. How will their wisdom, experience, and models of socio-ecological systems integrate with evidence-based policies for protecting the Amazon ecoregion? Safeguarding the Amazon is one of our world’s most pressing, complex, and vital global challenges. Among the strategies gaining traction, supported by increasing financial investment, is the intriguing proposition to transform a portion of the region’s immense biodiversity into a sustainable “bioeconomy.” However, these proposals, and the policy makers responsible for negotiating their implementation across boundaries and cultures, often lack an understanding of how both economies and ecologies self-organize and scale. Data-driven models of self-organization and critical collective phenomena in the natural world and within traditional Indigenous sociocultural structures, along with adaptive context-based frameworks, can help guide the transboundary development of a decentralized and circular socio-bioeconomy for the Amazon. Self-Organized Criticality and the Edge of Chaos Pioneering research on self-organized criticality (SOC) began in the 1980s and was made accessible to a wider audience by...

Mariana Gómez Soto is a Colombian social anthropologist, environmentalist, and activist. She holds a BA in social anthropology with minors in geography and biology, a master’s degree in social anthropology, and a second master’s degree in holistic sciences from Schumacher College. Gómez has worked closely with Indigenous communities for many years and has led key intercultural initiatives through her roles at the Gaia Amazonas Foundation and as a leader within the North Amazon Alliance. She is the lead author of a recent chapter on socio-bioeconomics and connectivity published in an assessment report by the Science Panel for the Amazon. Gómez also played a central role in founding the Amazonia Conectada coalition, which brings together the North Amazon Alliance, the Science Panel for the Amazon, RAISG, and Aguas Amazónicas—organizations with distinct areas of expertise united by a shared commitment to sustaining the Amazon’s terrestrial, biocultural, hydrological, and climatic interconnectivity. This wide-ranging InterDialogue opens with a discussion on dynamic, context-based frameworks for building and scaling a sustainable, circular bioeconomy in the Amazon. The conversation then turns to the importance of Amazonian connectivity, the evolving priorities of the North Amazon Alliance and Amazonia Conectada, and the critical role of interdisciplinary and intercultural education and collaboration in safeguarding the region’s future. Timestamps 0:00 – Introduction 1:42 – Defining Bioeconomics and Socio-Bioeconomy 5:44 – Envisioning a Circular Bioeconomy in the Amazon 9:52 – Developing Socio-Bioeconomic Trade Infrastructure 12:09 – Challenges of Modeling Bioeconomy in Practice 14:45 – Consequences of 2026 Elections for the Amazon 16:10 – Bioeconomic Product Identification and Market Integration 22:47 – Experiences Coordinating the North Amazon Alliance 24:27 – Analyzing Connectivity in the Amazon 31:47 – Hydrological-Terrestrial Interconnectivity 34:24 – Developing a New Methodology for Measuring Forest Connectivity 37:26 – Coordinating with Policymakers and the Public 44:11 – Experiences at COP30 49:49...

Investment in science is a pillar for any dynamic, equitable modern society, and promoting scientific literacy across all levels of society can help foster innovation, dialogue, and consensus that crosses disciplinary and cultural boundaries. Science also helps to uncover answers to foundational questions that have captivated, confounded, and divided our species for millennia. But what is “science,” and what kind of “evidence” ensures that an approach is scientific? If we take “science” to broadly mean, in its purest sense, a “dynamic search for the truth,” or more explicitly, “the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence,” as the Science Council aptly defines it, then science extends beyond the established, highly specialized disciplines of reductionist natural sciences (physics, chemistry, biology, geoscience, and space science) that have been so successful in fostering our understanding of our planet and the cosmos. Under this definition, science also includes the rigorous data-driven (qualitative and quantitative) social sciences, the inherently non-reductionist “holistic” sciences such as ecological and Earth system sciences, and the budding interdisciplinary field of complex systems science, as well as robust traditional knowledge systems based on multi-generational experiences, observations, and reasoning. As with science, “evidence” can mean a lot of things as well, including primary research, pre-existing data, past and planned experiments, and the referencing of peer-reviewed publications and primary sources. It can also include local and traditional knowledge, thought experiments, theoretical proofs, contemplation, verifiable personal experience, and empirical observation. Broadening and weaving together these forms of scientific evidence holds the potential to address complex, interconnected global challenges and explain deep mysteries that could help unify our polarized societies around foundational understandings. Foundational Questions Foundational questions can transcend the divides of generations and cultures: Cosmology, physics, and evolutionary biology have shed...

Luiz Davidovich is a Brazilian theoretical physicist with vast experience working at the science-policy interface. This was our second recorded Interdialogue, and this time we met at his lovely FINAP office in Rio de Janeiro, again speaking in depth about the importance of investing in science in both the developing and developed world.  In our wide-ranging conversation, we also ventured into foundational questions about the quantum world and the nature of reality, with a focus on his personal research in quantum metrology. Furthermore, we spoke about some timely recent projects with FINEP focused on bioeconomics, sustainable development and the conservation of the Amazon rainforest. Davidovich is the former president of the Brazilian Academy of Sciences, as well as the former secretary general of The World Academy of Sciences (TWAS). He is the recent recipient of the prestigious TWAS Apex award for his work in quantum optics and quantum information, and for promoting fundamental scientific research, globally.  Chapters 0:00:00 – Introduction 00:02:02 – The improving state of scientific investment in Brazil 00:12:20 – Current roles and projects for fostering scientific research 00:17:31 – The Amazon and bioeconomics 00:28:28 – The importance of intercultural collaboration, mutual respect and knowledge sharing between scientists and Indigenous peoples 00:41:47 – The importance of funding science, technology and innovation in Brazil 00:47:08 – Interrelated theoretical and experimental research into quantum systems interacting with the environment 00:57:03 – What is quantum metrology? 01:02:12 – The fun of doing scientific research and the social responsibility of fostering science 01:04:19 – Quantum computing, artificial intelligence and energy 01:13:58 – General AI, quantum entanglement and consciousness 01:19:03 – The dangers of anti-science, pseudoscience, misinformation and inequality, and the importance of effective scientific communication and engaging early science education

Eng: The articulation of knowledge, expertise, and experiences from different social actors is essential for the identification of alternatives and solutions for the management of natural heritage, its sustainable use, and equitable exploitation. In this intergroup we focus on wetland and coastal socio-ecological systems, in Colombia and beyond, but invite those with diverse backgrounds, perspectives and expertise, to join. Esp: La articulación de conocimientos, pericia y experiencia de diferentes actores sociales es esencial para la identificación de alternativas y soluciones para la gestión del patrimonio natural, su uso sostenible y su explotacion equitativo. En este intergrupo nos centramos en los los sistemas socioecológicos costeros y de los humedales, tanto en Colombia como en el resto del mundo, pero invitamos a unirse a personas con diversos antecedentes, perspectivas y experiencia.